Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Taipan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:20 am

1. No because it's part of the inherent mechanics of the series. Max always loses his belongings and it's the catalyst for his change. It wasn't very apparent in MM2, I wondered about it myself, why Max decides to drive the tanker afer his cars blows up. He literally does that because he lost all of the connection with his past when he lost the dog and the car, so he decided to do something altruistic because he had literally nothing else to lose. The same mechanic drives Max's change in MMBT, it's super evident in FR where Max actually rebuilds his former self to the best of his abilities (gets his car, belongings etc) and loses it again, even confronts it when his own car is about to run him over! In the comic books, Max goes to get his car back too. I think it'll be the same in the next sequels, it's just how the character of Max is written so I think people should prepare themselves to see the Interceptor lost again, blown up or abandoned etc.

2. The comic books are absolutely true to Miller's vision. The stories would be exactly the same with Mel Gibson in them. The stories in comics were not rushed, they were developed long before Fury Road was filmed.

3. I do, I have a lot of stories from the set that would be pretty surprising to a lot of people. That's why I dedicated a good chunk of the Mad Max Video Games video towards Miller's relationship with WB - that was just the tip of the iceberg.

4. Absolutely. Even going way back - Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome would've been completely different if Byron was still alive. He was the 'revhead' of the Mad Max series, he's the one who made it all click. Miller is the director, a visual mind and a storyteller. Once Byron was gone that part of the Mad Max series was gone and it drifted more towards storytelling, visuals and strange ideas. Since MM2 Miller needed people who would replace Byron's sense of car mayhem, the designs and the mechanics of it - in MMBT Terry Hayes took on that role and we got cars that a lot of people hated. For Fury Road, we got Brendan McCarthy who first wanted to make the cars look like WWI Tank Cars, then with Peter Pound and Colin Gibson the direction went towards Hot Rods. It's close but no cigar in my book, nothing compares to stylistic integrity of MM2. I think if Byron was still alive all of the Mad Max movies since MM2 would've been less cartoonish, more down to earth and relate-able which is the strength of those movies. It's why I think Mad Max movies lost a lot of oldschool fans, it looked like things jumped the shark and were too 'fantasy' since MM2 (as I've heard from a lot of people who worked on earlier MM movies too).

5. I doubt it. The things I'm talking about aren't what he'd like to be out there. At first I wanted to write a book about it but they wouldn't want any of it out either, so I'll stick to my videos, and the info I'm getting will have to remain more or less anonymous.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Mad Serge » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:16 am

Thank you a lot for your answers! I just wanted to add a few things:

In MM2, well, he didn't have much of a choice anyway so him driving the tanker was, all in all, the most rational thing to do. In the actual MMBT, well, he wanted to stay at the crack of the earth. He left only because he was worried about the fate's group (so this is altruism). I see character development. This is a personal opinion but I think it's pretty limited to reduce Max's identity to his V8. I mean, in the original trilogy, he had the yellow pursuit special (MM), the V8 interceptor (MM2) and the camel wagon (MMBT). So I get that they now want Max to get back his belongings (and you seem to like it as well)... Like you said, it feels like a "cartoon". As for the comics, like I said many times, I'm disappointed by Glory and her mother (I said why countless times). The backstory of the "plains of silence" would have been much more interesting. Anyway, I bet that Byron Kennedy would have made Max more believable (like the one from the original trilogy).
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Taipan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:33 pm

Yeah I find the way Miller utilized the Campbellian hero myth mechanics quite fascinating, that sort of a wandering mythological hero is stuck in limbo for the sheer purpose of repeating the same story over and over again. Max's belongings play a crucial part in that and they're connected to Max's sanity but it is very limiting at the end of the day. I'm pretty sure that in The Wasteland Max will undergo the same arc again because it's a prequel to Fury Road so he needs to try to help someone, and get traumatized by it again. In that sense, the Furiosa story is much more interesting because it spans over many years. I also think that her story was conceived because Miller was simply bored with Max's arc, there's this much you can do with it, each time he finishes a Mad Max movie he says he never wants to make another one I think that might be one of the reasons. Furiosa on the other hand is sane and not attached to the past so her motives are driven by guilt and redemption which she achieves at the end of Fury Road so at least we know how her arc ends. What we don't know is how she got there and if that story spans over many years there's a lot to tell in that.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Uncle Entity » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:59 am

I think there are a lot of misconceptions and false assumptions on this thread as well.

My points:

1- Max in MMBT is not insane at all. He's very smart, resourceful and NO MORE driven by vengeance or rage. His belogings are just "THINGS" he needs to survive. And you can apply this very same concept to EACH "MAD MAX MAX MOVIE". They are just belongings. Cars are not the central point of the Mad Max movies, sorry. They are just horses or cowboy guns, they are just the wise and inventive equivalent of the Western movie imaginery. Not the central point integral to Max's journey as human person or hero.
In MMBT, the "original" Max comes full circle. He's sane again. And he's willing to save people far over his "dark side". That "dark side" definitely died in the Thunderdome. Watching Blaster's true face and nature reminded him of the fact he is NOT like everyone else in the Wasteland. It was a brutal awekening, of course, but necessary. He's human.
There's a lot of conceptual violence in MMBT and the movie is perfect the way it is.

2- Max in FR is a different Max. Glory is just ONE of the MANY ghosts produced by his omnipresent PTSD. Glory is not the only trauma. She's just a molecula in a sea of traumas.
He's a different Max. It's an alternate Max belonging to an alternate timeline where MM, RW and MMBT never happened or at least occurred in a VASTLY different way.
"FURY ROAD" is a perfect movie the way it is. The "new" Max used to be a cop in the old cities. He experienced many traumas that made him become "almost totally" crazy. He lives in a state of an on-and-off PTSD hallucinatory condition. His car is just a car. It's his old Police car. That's it. He did not "rebuild" the Interceptor. What you see on-screen is the one and only Pursuit Special in Max's life. It's a new universe and the events of "The Road Warrior" never happened.

Generally speaking, it doesn't make sense the fact that Max wants to rebuild the Interceptor. It's a stupid idea. The character doesn't care. And even if he would care about it, you cannot realistically rebuild a car in the Wasteland. There is no material, no way.
Original Max needs to survive. That's his only "insanity", his "obsession".
The comics, the videogames, the novelizations are not CANON, no matter how much Miller or anyone else is "involved". What you see on-screen is what you get. The creature goes beyond the creator.

The movies are perfect the way they are. And they are 100% relatable.

On a side note, he is called "MAD" Max - in the original timeline - because he is a daredevil. Because he goes against everyone and everything he doesn't agree with. He is a lone wolf, he is an "accident". He is dangerous. More dangerous than anyone else.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Taipan » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:56 am

Yeah those are just your theories, which i don't really care for because I get my information from the creators.
And honestly your 'creature goes beyond the creator' angle doesn't mean a whole lot because you only use it to push your headcanon.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Uncle Entity » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:09 am

Taipan wrote:Yeah those are just your theories, which i don't really care for because I get my information from the creators.
And honestly your 'creature goes beyond the creator' angle doesn't mean a whole lot because you only use it to push your headcanon.


From the creators? Please.

Miller never claimed anything about Max going "crazier" each movie (in the original trilogy), or Max II rebuilding the Interceptor after Thunderdome.
Miller, Hardy and Charlize all stressed the fact that "Fury Road" is a REIMAGINING, a new universe. Read their interviews.

So now, you're the one inventing things. What you see on-screen is what you get. Comic books are not canon.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Taipan » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:21 am

Do you really think that interviews give away all the things about those movies? LOL.

I talked to people involved in production, people close to Miller who were involved in writing those movies. I have access to documents and early versions of scripts and all of that stuff is there so I don't need to rely on promo interviews.

From an interview you would never find out that Hardy had a restraining order from Theron. Or what was going on behind the scenes and what were the motives for character development and why Max suddenly appears so crazy as opposed to the previous movies. I mean sure, at the end of the day - all you get is what you have on screen that's easily available, but most of it isn't what you think is 'false assumptions' or misconceptions. If you think Max didn't rebuild his interceptor for a specific purpose you can take it up with Colin Gibson who told me that personally lol. You know... Colin Gibson? The man who had an actual book written about all the movie production details, the cars, items, the whole world of Fury Road as worked out with Nico Lathouris, Miller, Sexton, McCarthy? I'm sure his vision is a misconception. If you think comic books aren't canon - go and talk to Mark Sexton who wrote Fury Road with Miller since 1998. Dude.... I did my homework. Did you?
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Uncle Entity » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:11 pm

Taipan wrote:Do you really think that interviews give away all the things about those movies? LOL.

I talked to people involved in production, people close to Miller who were involved in writing those movies. I have access to documents and early versions of scripts and all of that stuff is there so I don't need to rely on promo interviews.

From an interview you would never find out that Hardy had a restraining order from Theron. Or what was going on behind the scenes and what were the motives for character development and why Max suddenly appears so crazy as opposed to the previous movies. I mean sure, at the end of the day - all you get is what you have on screen that's easily available, but most of it isn't what you think is 'false assumptions' or misconceptions. If you think Max didn't rebuild his interceptor for a specific purpose you can take it up with Colin Gibson who told me that personally lol. You know... Colin Gibson? The man who had an actual book written about all the movie production details, the cars, items, the whole world of Fury Road as worked out with Nico Lathouris, Miller, Sexton, McCarthy? I'm sure his vision is a misconception. If you think comic books aren't canon - go and talk to Mark Sexton who wrote Fury Road with Miller since 1998. Dude.... I did my homework. Did you?


It doesn't matter. It's against logic and plausibility and coherence anyway. It's a totally different Max. He has no white streaks in the hair. He's very far from the development the Max character had in the original trilogy. His modus operandi is different. His post-apocalyptic world is VASTLY different from the one you see in RW or MMBT.
I don't care if you really talked with those people... I'm not saying you're a liar. They truly worked for Miller. At the end of the day, MILLER created a new universe, a REIMAGINING. And you can't build a super-car like that in a post-apocalyptic world where oceans vanished, cities have disappeared and Max is a cop, not a super-engineer or Magneto or a magician.

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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Taipan » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:44 pm

Uncle Entity wrote: It's a totally different Max. He has no white streaks in the hair. He's very far from the development the Max character had in the original trilogy. His costume is different. His post-apocalyptic world is VASTLY different from the one you see in RW or MMBT.


And here's where you're completely wrong.

This Max in Fury Road is the same Max that was in the first 3 movies but this time he's gone actually insane. That how the character was written for Mel Gibson. Except now he's played by Tom Hardy and they call it 'a reboot'.
It's the evolution of the Max from the previous movies with a new hood ornament and a new paintjob. But under the hood it's the same engine, same thing.

Only in the next sequels which were NOT WRITTEN FOR MEL GIBSON you'll have a completely new Max in a totally new universe. Fury Road is a sequel to MMBT that's been mangled into a reboot. You can call it what you want, distance it from the original trilogy all you want and even listen to Miller who can't even decide what Fury Road is anymore but it does not change the fact that this movie was written, created and made for Mel Gibson as Mad Max 4. That's what Fury Road is.
And Max would've been far more insane in Fury Road with Mel. When they replaced the actor with Tom Hardy they had to tone his 'madness' down because it didn't make much sense as a reboot, but it's still based on the same character, the same evolution of his persona. You don't believe me that Max was actually getting crazier over time? Because Miller didn't say it? He didn't have to, it's written in the scripts, in MMBT Max is tripping balls, and there were actually scenes cut from the movie that show his nightmares. Pretty far from the cool and collected dude you saw in MM2. And it was so bad with Max in MMBT that at one point Miller simply wanted to kill Max out of pity. Instead he let him go, but in no way that means that Max was 'healed'. Proof is in the pudding, for Mad Max 4 Miller turned Max into a lunatic. It didn't come out of the blue.

If you don't care for this information because what's on the screen is there and that's that, then suit yourself.
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Re: Unused & Repurposed ideas in Mad Max movies.

Postby Uncle Entity » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:39 pm

Taipan wrote:
Uncle Entity wrote: It's a totally different Max. He has no white streaks in the hair. He's very far from the development the Max character had in the original trilogy. His costume is different. His post-apocalyptic world is VASTLY different from the one you see in RW or MMBT.


And here's where you're completely wrong.

This Max in Fury Road is the same Max that was in the first 3 movies but this time he's gone actually insane. That how the character was written for Mel Gibson. Except now he's played by Tom Hardy and they call it 'a reboot'.
It's the evolution of the Max from the previous movies with a new hood ornament and a new paintjob. But under the hood it's the same engine, same thing.

Only in the next sequels which were NOT WRITTEN FOR MEL GIBSON you'll have a completely new Max in a totally new universe. Fury Road is a sequel to MMBT that's been mangled into a reboot. You can call it what you want, distance it from the original trilogy all you want and even listen to Miller who can't even decide what Fury Road is anymore but it does not change the fact that this movie was written, created and made for Mel Gibson as Mad Max 4. That's what Fury Road is.
And Max would've been far more insane in Fury Road with Mel. When they replaced the actor with Tom Hardy they had to tone his 'madness' down because it didn't make much sense as a reboot, but it's still based on the same character, the same evolution of his persona. You don't believe me that Max was actually getting crazier over time? Because Miller didn't say it? He didn't have to, it's written in the scripts, in MMBT Max is tripping balls, and there were actually scenes cut from the movie that show his nightmares. Pretty far from the cool and collected dude you saw in MM2. And it was so bad with Max in MMBT that at one point Miller simply wanted to kill Max out of pity. Instead he let him go, but in no way that means that Max was 'healed'. Proof is in the pudding, for Mad Max 4 Miller turned Max into a lunatic. It didn't come out of the blue.

.


1- I don't doubt "Mad Max 4" starring Mel Gibson would have featured a Max "gone totally crazy", I believe you... but I'm glad that Mel declined the offer the second time (post-2003). I mean, that would go against the perfect evolution of the character from MM1 to MMBT: damnation, redemption and ascension. Leave the Original Max alone, his story-arc is magnificent the way it is.

2- I pretty much know about the "Nightmare Scene" in MMBT. It was even filmed and cut from the movie. I own the original script of the movie anyway. That doesn't prove Max is crazy at all. He is tormented and plagued by the demons of his past, not crazy.

I'm glad FURY ROAD turned into an alternate universe.
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