My supercharger setup re: Huge scott update.

Like the name says...

My supercharger setup re: Huge scott update.

Postby FalconGTHO » Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:22 am

ImageYou can get aftercoolers (the correct term) for BDS setups. Its just another expensive part thats available for those who can swing it.
Any damage Goose? Nothing a year in the tropics wouldnt fix. You should see the damage Bronze. Metal damage, brain damage, I AM the NIGHT RIDAHH!!! A fuel injected suiCIDE masheen!
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:53 am

My supercharger setup re: Huge scott update.

Postby Brianesff » Wed Dec 18, 2002 7:18 am

Many electric motors draw too much current but they do't need to run full time. They can be powered by a couple high discharge batteries.

How about reducing turbo lag?

I didn't find very much info on hydrochargers. This was some info from 2-3 years ago. Is this what was meant?

"[mr2sc]Original Garret HydroCharger Article (Long)

Eric Charnholm

Thu, 4 Jan 2001 00:49:48 -0800

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For all interested here is the original areticle from April 1999 Sport

Compact Car regarding the Garret HydrCharger. I got alot of requests for it

so I figured you guys wouldn't mind me just posting it here. I am going to

scan a photo of the HydroCharger itself. Just shoot me an e-mail if anyone

would like to see it. Enjoy.....

Eric Charnholm

"The turbocharging vs. super-charging debate has been raging for as


as men have associated horsepower with testosterone. Each has its

advantages and disadvantages, of course, but the natural human instinct is

to pick a favorite and then defend it with religious conviction. For those

of you prone to pre-judging a car based on the choice of air com-pressor,

Garrett is about to rock your world.

Garrett's upcoming HydraCharger blurs, the line between turbochargers


super-chargers, giving most of the advantages of both, and few of the

disadvantages of either. Before we go too far into the HydraCharger,

though, let's review the debate, just so we know which side we are on.

Turbocharging is usually the preference of engineering purists because it

captures wasted exhaust energy and puts it to work. Using a turbo, the heat

and horror of the exhaust stream can be used to compress the intake air,

making more power, and more heat and horror in the exhaust, which

com-presses more air, etc., etc. It's a veritable per-petual power machine.

In addition to capturing wasted energy, turbochargers tend to be the


efficient type of air compressors, meaning that they heat the intake charge

the least when they compress it.

The disadvantages, of course, are numer-ous, and most of them have to


with pack-aging. Because a turbo is driven by the exhaust, the exhaust and

intake air both have to go through it. This not only means one side of it

has to get extremely hot but a lot of plumbing has to be used to bring the

intake and exhaust systems to the same place and then back out where they

belong. Add an intercooler (a good idea with either a turbo or

supercharger) and you have more plumb-ing than a hardware store.

Finally, there is the lag. The centrifugal .compressor of a turbo has


be spinning quite fast before it can effectively move air. Getting the

turbo up to speed takes a certain exhaust volume, which takes a certain

intake volume, which takes a certain com-pressor speed, yada, yada, yada.

Careful siz-ing of the turbine and compressor can bring lag to a minimum,

but it still takes a certain amount of time to get the perpetual power

machine going.

Superchargers vary tremendously, and so do their strengths and


Centrifugal superchargers are essentially the same type of compressor as a

turbocharger, but are driven off the crankshaft instead of by exhaust

energy. Centrifugal superchargers still need to be spinning quite fast to

be effective, but because their speed is mechanically linked to engine

speed, there is no turbo lag. At high speeds where the compressor is

effective, throttle response is immediate, but at lower speeds where the

compressor is still struggling, there is no boost available no matter how

long you wail

Positive displacement superchargers (such as roots-type blowers) are a

different story. Instead of airflow being dependent on a com-plicated

relationship between airflow, com-pressor speed, and boost positive

displace-ment superchargers simply move a certain amount of air for every

revolution, no matter what. The linear nature of positive displace-ment

superchargers makes for excellent dri-vability and instant throttle

response. The downside is that most positive displacement superchargers

either have relatively low com-pressor efficiency (in other words they heat

the air a lot) or they are just plain expen-sive or both.

Packaging tends to be easier with superchargers, since you don't have


deal with the exhaust system, but you still have to find enough room for

the compressor in a location where a belt can reach from the crankshaft,

and where the intake air plumbing makes sense.

The achilles heel of superchargers, though, is parasitic drag. Driving

that air compressor takes a certain amount of power, and if you take that

power from the front of the crankshaft there is less power to go out the

back of the crankshaft and down to the wheels. Power consumption depends

on what kind of compressor is used and how much air it has to move, but 10

to 15 hp is not uncommon.

Most of these turbo vs. supercharger debates eventually break down to


party alternately yelling "Turbo lag!" "Parasitic drag!" "Underhood heat!"

Low efficiency." Fisticuffs inevitably ensue, and if one side is unlucky,

the debate will end with a ceremonial ass kicking.

Playing mediator in this senseless battle is the new HydraCharger. The

HydraCharger con-cept is quite simple. Essentially it is a compres-sor and

center section from a conventional Garrett turbocharger, but instead of an

exhaust-driven turbine on the other side, there is a tiny (about the size

of a quarter) turbine driven by hydraulic fluid (oil, water, whatever).

That fluid is, of course, provided by a pump which is driven off the

crankshaft, so technical-ly the HydraCharger is a mechanically driven

centrifugal supercharger but one with a brilliant hydraulic transmission.

The advantages of the HydraCharger take a few moments to sink in, so


walk through them. First there is compressor efficiency. Even centrifugal

superchargers seldom approach the efficiency of a modem turbo compressor.

Since any turbo compressor can be used with a HydraCharger, its compressor

is every bit as efficient. There, that shut the turbo guys up for a second.

Next there is packaging. The hydraulic pump is only about the size of a

power steering pump, so finding a place to mount it is much easier than

mounting a supercharger. The HydraCharger itself (which is about the size

of a turbo) can be mounted anywhere and unlike a turbo, which has to be

mounted horizontally, the HydraCharger can be mounted in any orien-tation.

That should keep both sides quiet

Since the HydraCharger is driven off the crank, there is no turbo lag,


unlike a conventional centrifugal supercharger, it can be made to work at

low rpm as well. By simply overdriving the pump and using a bypass valve at

higher rpm (like a wastegate for the fluid pres-sure) the HydraCharger can

be made to spool up to a useful sped just off idle. If required to do so,

the HydraCharger can accelerate from station-ary to 100,000 rpm in one

second, so lag needn't be a worry. That will keep the positive

dis-placement boys quiet.

Now that the bickering has quieted down, look at what we have. There


the responsive-ness of a positive displacement supercharger, the compressor

efficiency of a turbocharger, and ease of packaging that is unparalleled.

The downside? You've probably noticed that I didn't mention parasitic

losses. Since it is still driven off the crank, there will still be

parasitic losses, and since we have to worry about the power consumed

compressing the air, the power consumed pumping hydraulic fluid, and the

power lost due to the efficiency of the tiny fluid turbine, the power

consumption will probably be slightly more than a purely mechanical.

supercharger. The difference is small, however, and probably more than

offset by the extra power available as a result of the better compressor


The flexibility of the hydraulic drive system and the faster response


the hydraulically dri-ven turbine compared to an exhaust-driven one opens

up even more possibilities. The hydraulic bypass valve could easily be

controlled by a driver-adjustable valve-one much sim-pler than the

sophisticated controllers needed to accurately vary turbo boost. If you do

use more sophisticated controls, even more could be pos-sible. Traction>

control via variable boost, per-haps, different powerbands that can be

selected for different driving conditions, or even different boost levels

for different gears, maximizing acceleration on traction-limited cars.

The fact that a HydraCharger can be mount-ed anywhere leads to


possibilities. An engine originally designed for a HydraCharger, of course,

could integrate the hydraulic pump into the engine-much like the oil

pump--and the turbine into the intake mani-fold, for an incredibly compact,

high-output powerplant. That's all well and good, but we aren't designing

engines from scratch-think, instead, of what an eager tweaker could do.

There are a variety of reasons to do so, but no matter what your

motiva-tion, secrecy can be very valuable thing. Looking at a Sentra SE-R

engine compartment-something I do on regular basis-you could actually

supercharge the engine with a HydraCharger without leaving any visual cues

that the engine was anything but stock. First, mount the hydraulic pump on

the backside of the engine where it would be hidden under the intake

manifold. The hydraulic lines could be run in the midst of Nissan's messy

stock wiring without most people noticing, and the HydraCharger itself--now

this is where we get malicious-could squeeze into a fake battery.

Put the real battery in the trunk, and use one the hollow plastic


shells used for dis-play vehicles for concealing the HydraCharger. intake

air would have to be drawn in from the fenderwell, but the battery is close

enough to fender that a black hose passing into the could easily be

overlooks. Pressurized air could feed out the back of the battery and the

air filter box behind it-they are only about an inch apart. The air filter

box would just act as a non-functional shell and the pipe feeding air from

the fake battery to the fake air mass sensor would pass right through it. A

reprogrammed ECU and stock-looking 300ZX fuel injectors would round out the

package and, again, would be invisible.

Of course, you can't go out and buy a HydraCharger just yet-it's still

under development. -The original intention wasn't even to used as a

stand-alone supercharger. Instead, it was to be used on large, turbocharged

diesel to boost low-rpm output and help the turbocharger spool up more

quickly. It wasn't until people started getting excited about shoving

-superchargers in fake batteries that Garrett started considering it as a

standalone device. When it is finally available to the aftermarket you can

bet we'll be getting our hands on one."

Brian S

3 birds of prey
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:40 am

My supercharger setup re: Huge scott update.

Postby FalconGTHO » Fri Dec 20, 2002 4:06 am

ImageInteresting. Ill believe it when I see it in actual application. Im skeptical of the output.

Im a screw comperssor man ALL the way.
Any damage Goose? Nothing a year in the tropics wouldnt fix. You should see the damage Bronze. Metal damage, brain damage, I AM the NIGHT RIDAHH!!! A fuel injected suiCIDE masheen!
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:53 am


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