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another gun thread

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:38 pm
by ydx7
I'm thinking of trading my SKS for something else. I'd be doing this Wed, Thu, or Fri.

Some of the things I'm considering are:

12ga

357 magnum

AK-47

MAC10/11

I was wondering what stuff is good and what to avoid brand-/model-wise. This would include country of origin in the case of the AK. I would also like to know fair prices for these.

Do all 357's take 38's also? If not, which ones, since I might not want one of those.

I also would like to know how much my SKS would be worth. It's Chinese, and still has the spike bayonet. It is tricked out with a scope(and mounting mods of course), butt pad, something at the end of the muzzle(not getting up to look), and a 60-round magazine.

I've heard the MAC may be $$$$ prob due to rarity.

Thanks for your help.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:37 am
by HUMVEE Driver
I sense the armourer getting ready to post...

I'm not an expert on any of those, but I know that Benelli makes the highest quality shotguns, with the price that comes along with that. I'd go with a good Mossberg. I have a Mossberg 590, and everyone that I have talked to says that it is a great all-around combat shotgun.

As for a .357, I'd say Colt is the way to go. The Colt Python, in particular, is a name that gets mentioned when it comes to good revolvers. I don't know if they take .38s or not. I don't think it would be too hard to research that.

Hmmm, an AK47. Personally, I'd only get one if it was fully automatic. Laws and cost be damned, it seems like such a waste (to me) to get a weapon like that and then take away that which makes it so good in the first place. I can't imagine the paperwork, background checks, and $$$ you'd have to go through for that, though.

HUMVEE Driver

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:22 am
by Foxtrot X-Ray
Yes, .357Magnum revolvers will take .38 Specials and I think Plain old .38's.

I'd suggest you give some thought to what the gun would actually be USED for.

An SKS makes a poor Bird hunting gun, but a good deer hunter.
A Mac-10 is good for Up close self defense, but would be near to useless for putting a meal in your belly in the event of a survival situation.

The "Image" of the gun is also a consideration.

A big scary bblack pump-action shotgun going "K-Chk!" would spook more than a few home invaders, but would attract Unwanted attention from LEO's where a bolt action .22 rifle would hardly get a glance.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:24 pm
by the armourer
I saw this thread this morning but didn't have time to post a comment. Foxtrot is correct, to what end use are you acquiring these pieces?
Any .357 will chamber and fire .38Spec ammunition. Taurus makes a really nice .357 at an affordable price.
In a 12 bore, Dave's suggestion of the Mossberg 590 series is a good choice. I like them because the safety is mounted on the upper stock tang where it sits right under your thumb. The Remington 870 has a very large following in police circles and there are loads of after-market accessories available. If you don't absolutely need a newly manufactured gun, I would also look into the older Ithica Model 37. You'd be hard pressed to find a smoother action in a pump action. For me personally, all my social shotguns are Winchester 97's. I like the external hammer and it's simple and reliable.
MAC 10/11? As a semi-auto they're just a big, bulky handgun. If you go the Class 3 route, it's a high-speed bullet hose that's hard to control. You also have to watch the manufacturers. Not all MACs are created equal.
Kalashnikovs. If you're set on an AK, spend to extra coin and get a good one. The cheap Romanian WASR's have a spotty reputation. Both Vector and Arsenal USA have good product. If you're handy with tools and understand the process of cold riveting, building your own is a possibility but good quality parts sets are drying up, especially the 7.62mm guns(AK-47). 7.62 ammo costs are sky-high right now. A lot of 47 shooters are going over to the later AK-74 because ammo is much cheaper(the 74 chambers a 5.45mm round that is very similiar to the 5.56 round we used in Vietnam). I'm a big fan of the 74 and the 5.45 round. My 74s are almost if not just as accurate as my AR-15s. You just won't get that out of the 47 unless you go with the machined receiver but then you're talking big bucks .
The value of you're Chinese SKS? If it was still in as-issued condition, around $300. With the accessories you mention, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I can never understand why anyone will take a perfectly accurate and reliable firearm and add things to it that will degrade it's value and reliability. I just worked on what was at one time a beautiful 1952-dated Tula manufactured SKS that the fellow added just about everything in the Tapco catalog to it and then wondered why it wouldn't run right anymore. On top of that, he threw out all the original parts he took off. I couldn't get any of the 30 and 40rd mags to feed and went back to the stock 10rdr. I told him it was not an AK, wasn't designed to be an AK, so don't try to make it one. He basically turn a $400 rifle into a $150 piece. For what he spent on the rifle and add-ons which didn't work, he could have bought a reliable, quality AK and avoided all the headaches.
And I would strongly advise against home building any full auto guns. The penalty is 10 years/$50000 fine. Go the legal route. It's expensive but the paperwork isn't too bad. Beats having Tyrone walk you home to your "cell" every night.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:39 am
by Big Bopper Bart
Hey Amourer,whats yer take on the Ithica .12 guages? I have an old ex police issue one where the shell ejects out of the bottum.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:15 am
by the armourer
That's the Ithica I was referring to Bart, the Model 37. They are great IMHO. I've yet to handle a 37 that didn't have a smooth action. I also like the single receiver opening. Everything takes place through the bottom. Much less chance for dirt and other debris to get inside. If you got one, hang onto it.

Remember the scene in "Aliens" when the dumbass LT disarmed the platoon's weapons and Cpl Hicks pulls a cut-down Ithica out of his ruck(for "close encounters")? Then a few seconds later when all hell breaks loose with all the yelling and screaming and the Smart Guns firing, and above it all you can hear that little 37 just going to town. BOOM, cha-chack,...BOOM, cha-chack,...BOOM, cha-chack. No mistaking that sound.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:56 pm
by ydx7
Sorry. I haven't had time to reply.

I want something for self-defense at home. I know an AK is not the best choice.

I do know of the common brand names.

I was looking for used guns.

I went to 3 places but didn't buy anything. It seems all had high prices for shotguns. Here is what happened.

1 This is the place I've been to before. There was a Maverick(Mbrg off-brand) "tactical" for $259. There was a Taurus Model 60 357 for $275. It had a SHORT barrel. This was theonly place I mentioned/showed my SKS. The guy said he'd only offer $125 for it :x I should have asked instead how much cash I would have to give with the SKS for the 357. They had a bunch of AK's, but I think the lowest was over $400. There was even a bullpup mod AK.

2 The only thing of note was a 357 by a company I haven't heard of for $250. The name was 2 syllables and started with an A.

3 Here, there was a customer asking about 357 vs 38. There was a Mossberg tactical(the guy said the model is 50) for $250. He said it holds 3 or 4 rounds. It looked new, but I didn't ask.

I have 2 questions.

Doesn't a short barrel mean crappy accuracy? To me, a 357 with a short barrel doesn't look 357-y enough.

How much better is a 357 compared to a 38?

I'll admit the AK and MAC were more for the coolness factor. I thought the MAC is the US answer to the Uzi.

I was also considering a Colt 45 1911, but 2 ex-military told me they suck. #2 had one, but they wanted $1400 for it. :o

I know an MP-5 is out of the question($$$$$$$$$$$$$) :)

Thanks again for your help.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:11 pm
by the armourer
ydx,

The Maverick shotty is Chinese made. Not a bad deal, but for a few bucks more you can get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg. Depending on where you live, there may be a gun show soon in your area and you're almost certain to find there. For home defense, stay with the 12ga chambering and don't get a barrel longer then 22 inches. A longer barrel will make it awkward to maneuver with in confined areas.
The .357 sounds like an Astra. They're made in Spain and are pretty decent. The Taurus brand is very high quality and comes with a lifetime guarantee. One of their stainless 4" .357's will probably out-last you. The .357 is a powerful round. It was the big boy on the block from 1937 until the .44Magnum was introduced in the 1950's. You make no mention of your firearm skills or experience, but full power magnum loads can be rough on a novice shooter. There are several good self defense loads in .38Spec+P+ that fall between normal .38Spec and .357 levels. I always recommended a 4" .357 to inexperienced shooter. There are no safeties to fumble with, just pull the trigger. They can start out with light .38Spec target loads and work up to full-power .357 loads as they gain experience.
Again, unless you have considerable experience with them, I would avoid choosing an AK for home defense. Unless it strikes bone, the 7.62 will over-penetrate a body and still pass through several walls, possibly endangering neighbors or family.
A lot of former soldiers who deride the .45 as junk usually only have experience with them in the military where the weapon has been rebuilt several times and they are just worn out. The last time the military purchased 1911's was in 1945. From then until the Beretta was adopted in 1983, the 1911's were continuously refurbished until they could no longer be up kept. There are many manufacturers building 1911s today with no letup in popularity in sight. My daily carry piece is a stock GI Colt 1911 made in 1917.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:50 am
by ydx7
Astra was the brand of the 357 at #2. Is $250 a good deal or not? And what about the Taurus at #1 and Mssbg at #3?

Could you give a sentence or two on barrel length? The Taurs #1 had was kind oflike this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Taurus-605-left.jpg/252px-Taurus-605-left.jpg but it was black, and I could've sworn the barrel was even shorter.

$125 seemed way to low of an offer for my SKS.

Re: another gun thread

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:03 am
by HUMVEE Driver
I was in the military and I have quite a lot of experience with the Beretta 92. I was never awesome with it, but I always qualified Expert with it.

It's my opinion that if you are in combat and all you have is a pistol, you're screwed no matter how good you are. (Home defense or police activities are a different story)

Since then I've been to ranges and used friend's Glocks and various revolvers. I decided to rent out a M1911 to see what the fuss was about. (Every military person I've talked to loves that gun)

I couldn't believe how smooth it shot and how accurate it was. I was truly impressed. The recoil was not what I expected for a .45 either.

I have two shotguns for my home, its just my personal preference not to have a handgun. But if I were to have a handgun, it would be the Beretta, simply because I have so much experience with it. But the M1911 is a close second. I would recommend the M1911 to anyone as the top choice for a handgun.

HUMVEE Driver